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I totally get what you are saying @N-lightMike .Thank you for trying to keep it clear and direct. I can sure use all the help I can get right? I am trying to use the word key in direct relationship to a song, ever song has a key so that everyone can play the some chords and scales as they relate to the agreed upon key. Check me on that…I know you have been deep diving into the world of word connecting principles. I was avoiding modes although I find them easy to understand (now) I spent a good deal of time figuring them out. The reason the key of a song is important to @the-old-coach ‘s situation is he is listening to song where the key has been established and he is trying to decode and find the “Key”. I get that if the key is A minor you could also call it A Aeolian to identify it by the mode. Check me on that too : ) In my mind for better of for worse I always think of the Ionian Major mode as the place I relate to something and play with it from there but I have to know the key in order to determine where to begin. I like a seamless shift between major and minor both relatives and when I can bend it to the parallels all the better. But that does not address The old Coach’s question and I have wandered onto a parallel path.