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Does playing songs dampen progress?
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Thanks @acousticdave that’s some great advise. I’ve been working on a flatpicking/crosspicking version of the bluegrass standard Shady Grove as done by Jerry Garcia & David Grisman. I think this is exactly what you’re describing here!
Thanks @albert_d etc good discussion here & that’s what i was hoping for!
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A very interesting question, Guy, and many responses here, so you’ve created food for thought and great discussion. My answer is no, not at all, in fact, just the opposite.
Personally, I learned guitar to be able to play and sing songs. I never saw myself as a solo artist doing riffs and improvs. So for me playing songs has moved my progress along. I’ve learned to change chords smoothly (well, sort of) and strum and sing along. I’m now learning fingerstyle patterns, again, changing chords and singing. I’m also stepping up my game and playing songs with barre chords, and doing my best to incorporate fretting hand techniques and melody notes. So I have used songs to push my progress forward. If you want to use songs to create progress, you certainly can, but it’s up to you. 🙂🎵
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I just came across this fabulous post. I think this is a great example of what many here have suggested. One couldn’t learn to play this song in this manner without learning ALOT and practicing ALOT. And of course a person could start out in a more simple version and then make it as challenging as they want.
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Wow, what a great video, performance and example of the automatic thumb. Thanks for posting @Guy_H .
This is a real inspiration for me because the hardest thing she’s doing is the alternating thumb. I’ve been working on that. The pattern on the treble strings is mostly here middle finger, especially when she’s singing. And since she’s in open tuning, the fretting patterns are greatly simplified. And yet, she’s making this song sound so beautiful and varied and complicated. Like I said, this is a real inspiration for me to just keep working on that alternating thumb. No, I may never play like Tommy, but I might, one day, do something like this. (Maybe!)
I guess what has excited me about this is that I actually understand what she’s doing and I can see a clear path for me to get there. Wow, thank you so much TAC and Tony and all the TAC members and VOM attenders who have helped me to this point.
MG 😀
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That was utterly spellbinding. Could listen to this all night!
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And best of all @Guy_H , Toni Lindgren is putting out a how to video later this week on her arrangement. Best cover song I have seen in a good long while!!!
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totally agree @jumpinjeff . How do I find this little tutorial gem?
MG 😀
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I found it. Her YouTube channel is “Toni Lindgren”. It wasn’t tough. 😂
MG 😀
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Ok Guy, I have read all the comments and counter-comments and also the counter-counter-counter comments and don’t really have much new to add other than this: I have heard you play in the VOMs and you don’t seem to be “stagnant” in your playing progress.
Before TAC I had a song list of about 450 songs that I had literally typed up the lyrics and chords in MS Word as a way to try and keep the song more embedded in my old brain. (it helped some)
After joining TAC and going through the daily exercises and especially Fretboard Wizard, I began to focus more on the construction of the songs. I have added almost 200 more songs to my list but they are becoming more complete as far as increasing my “skill”. (such as it is)
One other thing that has helped me over the years is playing with other musicians, both guitarists and others. (keyboards, drums, banjo, accordion, etc) I have had a couple of music groups that I formed and have played with a few other groups and learned quite a bit from watching others and “picking their brains” on techniques and styles.
Open-mics have helped me and certainly the VOMs that were started here on TAC and eventually went to its own forum have greatly helped.
Essentially we all need to decide what we think “progress” really is.
My 2 & 1/2 cents. Omar
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Thanks @Omar_A.H. appreciate your 2.5 cents – that’s almost a Canadian nickel!😆
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“That’s almost a Canadian nickel.”
I had to laugh at Tom Rush the other night when he quipped, “I’m 80 years old now – that’s 98 Canadian!”
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This reply was modified 4 years, 4 months ago by dr_dave.
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This reply was modified 4 years, 4 months ago by
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👍 Well said Omar.
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Great question. Great answers. Thank you all
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Lately– there’s been a few Forum conversations discussing playing and singing.
So…. (sort-of related🤨)… I thought I’d dredge this old thread up!
There are plenty of NEW faces around in our TAC Forum. This old thread is— again— very relevant.
Plus– this is just a GREAT thread!!!!- (as evidenced by how many posts are in it— there are 52 POSTS!!!). And the information, advice, and experience-based viewpoints are wide-ranging, and nothin’ short of fantastic.
It’s quite a “read”- (it’ll take a few minutes for sure, to get all the way thru it)- but I highly recommend reading EVERY viewpoint if this is an area you’re interested in. There is a huge amount of info inside!
Amazing how these conversations “come back around”!
Great stuff…….. enjoy- (again?)……. Please add new viewpoints!!! Your advice- (or questions)- helps others.
To me, it’s great to “re-live” and recall threads like this. Remind and re-learn.
the old coach
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This reply was modified 3 years, 8 months ago by the-old-coach.
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This reply was modified 3 years, 8 months ago by
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@Guy_H , I actually think learning a song is great. Memorize a few then improve on them. Some songs are just strummed but after learning the strum pattern you could record it. Use it as backing track and do a solo using the same strummed song. Doing that will help you learn to hear the notes. That will give you some practice with ear training. Get a piece of paper and write the notes down as you go. You’d have an Intro, Verse, Chorus, Bridge and ending to the song. All finger picked, that will be awesome. That’s pretty much what the daily challenges are doing. They are there to help you put it all together on the weekend. My answer to your question is no, you are not wasting your time by learning songs. Also learning a song a week is a lot. You want to listen to it and really hear what’s going on in a song it takes me a lot longer than a week to really get a song down where I think it sounds good enough. Good luck and I hope my answer helped a little. Just remember, that’s me. That’s what I do. It might not be for you.
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This morning I saw your new post😀- and it is yet another very insightful one in a ***GREAT*** thread.
I read thru the entire thread again- (done that quite a few times now– not counting following all the new responses as they were added in the first place- when the thread was “new”).
For me, now, again, this thread is VERY relevant—- (some 8 months after it originally aired). As my own abilities change over time- (improve🤨?), a re-visit to a thread like this is PERFECT.
Love this TAC forum👏!!!!!!…… It is like a GIANT vault- (or bucketful)- of experience, way different perspectives, thoughtful advice, and generous help– on most everything that we guitar-learners face at one time or another- (or— at one time AND another).
It all comes back around, right? Everything old is new again!
the old coach
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This thread has a lot of great comments and food for thought. I think a missing piece is theory. I dabbled around for decades learning new songs and techniques specific to the “interesting” parts of those songs and had fun. But each time I became inconsistent I lost the Song. As I’ve aged and my voice range narrowed, I lost the Song because it was not in a key or range I could now sing. Then I discovered, through TAC, Theory and how it relates to Technique and finally to the Song. Now the songs are easier to learn and make sense, so less memory is required, and the technique fits into whole plan. The song construct and writing songs opened up. (Of course another big part of the equation is that consistent playing and exercises give the strength and flexibility to perform the technique.). So I think the Song is definitely a part of one’s guitar life. It is the application. And the Song leads to the social aspect of a Guitar Experience.
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Albert-
Wow. Way-to-go🙂. You just reminded (at least ME specifically😃) of another thing I’m not great at (yet). But it’s all good.
Yours is yet ANOTHER great perspective on this! I think- (again at least ME)- don’t realize the importance of what you mention.
Many months ago, I remember reading a thread about how some guitar instructors will work like crazy teaching/perfecting “one song”.
The TAC method of teaching ALL different parts of playing guitar– so that over time you can play ANY song– to me is much better. Seems like it would provide for a much broader “base” in guitar.
Sorry about sounding like some-sort-of cheerleader-type– but the information and help you all put in here is nothing short of solid gold for those following behind you👏- (me included!).
the old coach
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I am so late to the party @guy_h.
I feel progress in any direction of your choosing and be able to quantify the improvement is of your choosing. I love playing instrumentals as I feel my voice is hmmm what it is. Playing and singing is so difficult and working on it as we speak. It was not in the cards 4 years ago and now the goal post has moved in this direction. Shhh don’t tell @Steve!
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Dug up an old thread here, it’s an excellent topic. Of course a big reason we start learning guitar is to be able to play those songs that we love. I certainly wouldn’t discourage anyone who wants to use their time in this manner. I devote a bit of time each day myself to honing a song or 2, but I always make sure to stay in the system and not steal time away from my daily challenge.
I do think that if you are not very skilled it may not be the best use of your time to learn how to perform a song. Conversely, once you have acquired a sufficient level of playing skills then you can learn several (possibly a double digit number of) songs in the same time that it takes a beginner to learn his first song. This is why I have backed away from focusing on learning songs which admittedly was a huge desire when I started.
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