How much skill do I need?

[N-lightMike]

Hey Mark @mkjohnsons

I feel like I could have written this… more than once in the past 2 1/2 years since I joined TAC. Tony/TAC asks us to come up with our “guitar dream scenario”. That’s supposed to be our raison d’etre (“reason to be” is all it actually means 😅).

“I think maybe at the heart of it, it’s an “expectation” issue, but—– Is there a point where a person like me simply doesn’t NEED some of it, and/or, is learning how to play—– just for the enjoyment of it—– “good enough”? I’m NEVER gonna play on a stage in front of an audience– I just want to learn some cool skills inside and out, and be able to play “by ear”- to grab a guitar and “play along”, if you will.”

So, an awful lot of what you said was just the background info. But you summarize your thoughts/feelings pretty well with this quote, so this is what I’m going to use to respond to.

So, what I have arrived at since I have been here and gone through this more than once is 2 fold:

A) You never need a reason… for anything… other than you want to. However, what you absolutely need is to have fun. When we are working on something that seems impossible and we wonder if we will ever need it, we are not having fun.

Solution: Find a way to enjoy the lesson… or don’t do the lesson. Here’s the answer to your musings. If you will do all the lessons, no matter how impossible or never needed, it will help improve your guitar skills. The other side of the coin is that it doesn’t really matter. We are not going to master all aspects of the guitar. In fact, we are not going to master any aspect of the guitar. But, we can get some amount of skill on some aspects of the guitar. So where does that leave us? Enjoy the lesson or blow it off.

B) Learn to love your sound. Another member said this once and I thought it was part of the answer to my feeling of being lost. So, I said we don’t need a reason other than we want to. Well, why do we want to if it just makes us feel confused and conflicted? Yeah, we have to have fun. But, have you ever just started messing around with some chords and rhythm and just got lost in the sound you were making? If not, try to find your way there. Just start playing some chords you can play easily. Play a rhythm you can play easily. Close your eyes and go on a journey with those chords and rhythm. Lose yourself in the sound… cause that’s the only reason you will ever need.

So, let’s visit “expectation”. @jumpinjeff has said “expectation is where fun goes to die!” The other side of the coin is that you mention what you really want out of your guitar journey… learn some cool skills, play by ear and play along. If you can connect what you do with your guitar every single day to those long term outcomes, then you can get over that lost feeling. You can call your long term outcomes your proper expectation, that is, what you want out of your guitar journey. If you feel you are moving toward your goal, then you can put away the expectation that is hiding in the shadows trying to sabotage your guitar journey.

One last thing. I have to revisit this philosophy frequently. That’s why I have boiled it down to those 2 simple things. Have fun (while doing lessons specifically). Enjoy my sound (every day if possible… don’t just practice/learn).

MG 😀

[MoochasPoochas]

Hi Mark- It’s pretty hard to cover all of this, but….We’ve all been a bit overwhelmed at times because learning guitar is a huge challenge. What got me through was having a definite practice plan that made sense for me at the time and allowed for my skill level. I also had to find ways to have fun with the skills that I had learned, specifically learning simple songs. It made me feel like a guitar player that could make actual music. I never got buried in the daily challenges ,but I did my best in 20 minutes then saved it for later review and moved on. As my skills advanced, I updated my practice plan and took on more advanced courses and songs. The other issue that really got me off to a good start was taking the Fundamentals of Fretboard Navigation and Fretboard Wizard. It took a lot of the mystery out of the daily courses. I never tackled skills classes that I wasn’t ready for. I concentrated on all of the basics and incorporated them in daily practice. From reading your post, it sounds like you may have skills courses out of order?

Just remember that you only have to learn the skills that get you to where to want to go. If open chords are your thing, then great. If you get there, you may decide to take on more skills later when you’re feeling more positive. There are lots of ups and downs with this but it should always be fun and rewarding. Your expectations need to be realistic and you have to be patient. The skills that you learn in TAC are cumulative and will sneak up on you eventually.

I would highly recommend that you check into the 90 day check-in on TAC in January to help you to come up with a good practice schedule. I hope that helps a bit.

[N-lightMike]

Hey Mark @mkjohnsons

I wanted to summarize what I said in another way:

Have Fun is the attitude I need to have, the frame of mind.

Enjoy My Sound is what I need to do, the action I need to take.

So enjoying my sound isn’t just getting lost in a journey on the fretboard, but can also be a song or a lick, anything where we just get into the groove. It can be adlib or something written down on a tab. Something we came up with or something someone else came up with. It doesn’t matter.

MG 😀

[OwenGL]

Mark,

I tried to respond yesterday, but my response disappeared when I tried to edit it. I’ll try again.

These are the things that have helped me. Take what helps, leave the rest behind.

1. Your reason for playing is all that matters. Any lessons or skills that won’t get you there don’t matter. That reason may change in the future. If it does, you can tackle the other skills you need at that time.
2. Focus on one or two key skills at the beginning. There are way too many skills to tackle all at the same time. When I first started a few years ago as a 40 yr old, I focused on open chords and strumming. Later, I added things like barre chords, hammer-ons, pull-offs, fingerstyle, etc.
3. The daily lessons that don’t directly apply to the skills I’m focusing on are given 10 minutes and then I move on to something else. It doesn’t matter if I get the lesson “correct” or up to speed, just that I spend 10 minutes on it. I see this as slowly building up a base for later when I focus on whatever skill is in the lesson.
4. Don’t try to learn/remember everything in the skills courses. You can always go back and retake them to pick up things you missed the first time.
5. Find simplified versions of songs you want to learn (youtube is great for this) and have fun with them. This really is why we picked up guitar – we want to play songs. I have never heard someone who says “I want to learn guitar so I can play scales” or some other specific skill.
6. The hardest thing of all – don’t compare yourself to others. We each have areas that we have focused on, so we tend to be better in those areas. It is easy to see others who have been playing for around the same amount of time that are good at all of these skills, but what we’re really doing is constructing someone that doesn’t exist that is good at everything.
7. You are exactly as good as you should be given the amount of time and focus you are able to invest in learning guitar. We aren’t kids who can spend hours a day playing guitar. We have responsibilities and obligations that demand our time.
8. Periodically try playing something you worked on in the past – you’ll find it comes much easier than it did originally and you’ll realize the progress you’re actually making.
9. When you are working on something in practice and you finally get it “right”, stop. Walk away and work on it again at some later time. If you end your practice sessions with some kind of success, you’ll be more motivated to come back and try again.

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Now for barre chords. No, you don’t have to learn them. There are plenty of professional musicians who never play barre chords. There are some benefits to barre chords, but they aren’t absolutely necessary. Also, take it slow when you learn them. It takes awhile to get the hand strength and technique right and can be really fatiguing.

Some reasons to learn barre chords:

1. They help you learn the notes up and down the fretboard, especially on the two lower strings
2. Sometimes it is easier to transition to/from barre chords
3. Since your index finger is acting like a capo, you can easily change the key of a song simply by shifting all of your barre chords up/down the same number of frets. (doesn’t work if there are other non-barre chords in the song)
4. You can play the same chords with different voicings. For example, you can play the D major chord the standard way on strings 1-4, but that leaves out all of the base. You could use a barre chord on fret 10 and use all 6 strings which makes it sound more full, but higher pitch. You could use a barre chord on fret 5 with strings 1-5 and get a little more base without going so high up the fretboard.

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It appears you aren’t the only one who is long winded. 🙂

btw, I see you’re from Montesano – my sister lives there. small world

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[jumpinjeff]

Hi @mkjohnsons , I am grateful to read your in depth self analysis. How much skill do I need? Fantastic question and I find it is as much as I can stand. I notice in your personal assessment of Fridays lesson you characterized your result as “(badly)”. I have to ask: as compared to what? If you ended up worse than before you started we need to explore that. Did you improve at all after the 3 or 4, 10 minute sessions? Where those sessions all in one day or over the course of 3 or 4 days? The Idea of “heck with it” would be counter productive for me but perhaps is a motivator for you? The feeling of “lost” happens to me every time begin to compare myself to “X”. Lost happens when I look to far into the future and leave the present moment. I am never lost in the present moment. I can make adjustments in the present moment. I can manage tension in the present moment. I can feel the vibrations of the strings in the present moment. I have joy in the present moment. My future does not create my present but my present creates my future. So getting present, we can address the sound you are producing, adjust, make a change find the sound you want and after adjusting, revel in the bliss of the new sound 1000 or so times, or what ever it takes for it to become intuitive. Bottom line is just keep going.

Remember just because something is eluding you now doesn’t mean it will elude you forever. The more effort you put in (not just physical but metal focus of eyes on the prize), combined with direction, and thoughtful analysis, the faster the progress will be. This make it easier to just keep going

I have been where you are. There are millions who have been where you are. Only thousands find a way to move beyond and continue. Millions hang it up. You are a player Mark you have made it this far. Marshall your determination, have confidence in the process (Tony’s method works but you gotta keep playing for it to work). Sometimes putting your head down and doing the next thing is all that it takes. Even if you loose your map the direction is there. It is okay to table things for now and revisit later. Break those chord shapes into their scales. Learn the individual notes of the triad, etc. The times when I have miraculous breakthroughs is right when I think I can’t stand it anymore and push just a little more and bam! the locked door opens. Just keep going.

As for the bar chords specifically? Do you need it? no. So many ways to skin a cat. How long is your thumb. Thinking what bar chords do: if your thumb can wrap the neck and get to the E and A strings you never have to bar with your index. The longer you play and explore the more you may find yourself wanting the options. There is nothing wrong with letting your necessity be the mother of your invention. You got this, just keep going. Wow that was long sorry. Oh one last thing….just keep going.

[the-old-coach]

Wow– Thank you all for those great responses!

So I re-read my original post, and I’m sorry if it sounded kind-of “all-over-the-place”, without a defined, clear, purpose– just sort-of whining. That’s about 180 from what I intended in my head.

I’ll try to go thru each reply and cherry-pick– and respond to– your phrases (they are great, by the way!)- and ideas, as I think them thru- and as time allows.

I’d love to be able to re-write my original post- clarifying things better.

I’m sort-of a “mechanical” player. I get thru 98% of the Dailies without too much problem overall- some do take a couple more, 10 minute sessions though.

I’m sorry if it sounded otherwise, but I really like Barre chords- they are cool and versatile- and I find them relatively easy!

I realize “ya don’t know what ya don’t know”, and one thing I DON’T know is why I need to learn those chords— or find these notes—- 5-7-9-12 frets up the neck. (Another- sort of similar example- the “Fundamentals of Fretboard Navigation” course in the Skills Courses. I’ve completed it just fine and found it interesting for sure. But the question to me is– WHY do I need to find that C note at 8 or 10 different spots up the fretboard. Again- it wasn’t a matter of DOING it- (it’s cool stuff!- and I was pretty good at finding those notes easily using the patterns)- but more so, it’s a matter of “why”?

I’m not generally a “take the easy way out” person- more like the opposite of that. But I feel like I’m collecting a huge toolbox full of tools- quite a few of them I’ll never use- (I actually have that).

Is it better to have a few less tools– but know how to use the ones I do have- extremely well?

I’m not really interested in comparing myself to any other players- (but I do LOVE—- really love—- to read their perspectives of “all-things-guitar”).

Boiling it all down– I think that all I really want to end up with is the ability to be able to pick up a guitar and be able to competently “play along” quickly and easily, by ear. Maybe be able to transfer the music I hear in my head instantly to my guitar- that’d be a cool skill too. Maybe dabble in writing my own songs?

MJ

[jumpinjeff]

Why? another great question. Variation. Really within musical context everything needed is between the C on the third fret of the A string and the C on the first fret of the B string. There lies one octave no need for E strings at all. Add in multiple octaves and potential for sonic variation increases. If the sound you hear in your head is one you can achieve with two octaves or so no need worry about the upper frets. Just know they are there in case the sound in your head evolves (seems to be constant evolution for me). The way I developed as a player I got the horizontal plane before the vertical plane made sense in my head. It was the way my wiring got connected. A fascinating aspect of guitar is it gives us the opportunity to advantage both vertical and horizontal or one or the other. Now I get up way high and run outta space (wishing I had more) thinking “Uh Oh” how the heck do I get back down and another adventure begins.

Your goal and mine are almost identical. “…ability to be able to pick up a guitar and be able to competently “play along” quickly and easily, by ear. Maybe be able to transfer the music I hear in my head instantly to my guitar”. I am not a gifted musician (not tone deaf either but lets just say tone confused) I have been playing as much as I can for 6 1/2 years and only now am I getting to the place where the mind and fingers can instantly connect in an intuitive way. Not meant as a comparison rather my personal recognition of how I woefully underestimated my time to get to this place. When I started I was thinking a year maybe two at most. Hehehe. Those were my dark days. I figure I am about as fluent on guitar as a Six year old kid might be in their native language. Some of those kids talk a lot and some pretty eloquently but most either way can get their point across.

Last thought. It is way easier to bend strings around the neighborhood of the 12 fret. String bending is part of my head sound and is done more easily up there.

[N-lightMike]

It seems I mostly misunderstood your original post Mark @mkjohnsons My bad.

As far as why: I frequently figure out a way to use tools I have. I rarely, if ever, think of how I could use a tool I don’t have. If I do think of how I could use a tool I don’t have, I always know that tool exists.

Mg 😀

[the-old-coach]

Mike, Jeff, Owen, Moochas–

I can’t offer enough thanks for these in-depth, caring, thought-out responses. This stuff- helping others when they need it- is the HEART and soul of TAC.

You have helped me hit the reset button in my head- especially along the lines of “keeping my eyes on the prize” as far as where I want to “end up”- (although I know there is always “more”, and I won’t quit even when I finally do “end up” there). I will certainly continue all the Dailies like always- but try to pick them apart a little more, and take out and emphasize any parts and pieces I really like.

Taking a few steps back, to get a bigger perspective, that’s probably what Tony wants us ALL to do- because we’re all/each at a different point in the journey, and have different like, dislikes, skills, and eventual goals. You guys have just unlocked the door for me. I know what I want to do- and now you have pointed the way, and told me what to watch out for– and what to just “let go”.

Hey– I’m Scandinavian and it sometimes takes me a bit longer to “catch on”😉

Between you (all), you have written the basis for a book that may be titled something like “Ups & Downs of Learning to Play Guitar– the First Year”

Here are a few of my favorite phrase/nuggets you all have thrown out there- (just in this thread)–

“Find a way to enjoy the lesson- or don’t do the lesson”

“Lose yourself in the sound”

“Enjoy my sound…. don’t just practice/learn”

“My future does not create my present- but my present creates my future”

“Revel in the bliss of the new sound a 1000 or so times”

Love this stuff! Thanks again for kickin’ this wayward rock back toward the pile.

Any more thoughts?- throw ’em out there.

In appreciation-

Mark J

[N-lightMike]

Hey Mark @mkjohnsons

I am really happy to hear you have found your direction and reason… again. And we helped you? Or did we receive help?

So many times, when I lost my way and thought “what’s the point?”, someone else was asking for help. I found new purpose by helping the other person. I have been through this feeling so many times from both sides, asking and helping. And every time, no matter if I felt lost at the time or not, I was helped.

Thank you for asking and starting the conversation. I will remember what I said/figured out: my attitude is have fun, my action is make beautiful noise.

MG 😀