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Memorizing
Posted by the-old-coach on March 31, 2021 at 1:09 pmSorry if I’m on here too much- I’m cursed with a brain that can’t seem to go too long without wanting to ask a dumb question.
So in my practice routine I play 5 or 6 different Daily Lessons- about 10 mins each. It takes a few seconds to go from one to another. Sometimes I’ll whip thru a few Eighth Note Turnarounds during that 30 seconds or so- just to fill the time. They’re fast & fun.
So during the change-over time, for something new, I decided to try to play the just-previous lesson– just by memory. (Note– I really like to play lesson using the Tab sheet- but during the “transition”, the Tab, of course, is gone).
So– by memory– off I went….
I could get the first few notes— then— poof! gone!
I couldn’t play that lesson on a bet– and I had just played it dozens and dozens of times— one minute earlier!
Got me thinking- learning to play guitar and play actual songs— is all about memory. A good ability to memorize things is critical in learning guitar, right?
So here’s where I’m asking for thoughts on this……… Should I start focusing on developing- (somehow)- stronger memory? Is this maybe just “automatic”?
Mark J
the-old-coach replied 3 years, 10 months ago 8 Members · 20 Replies -
20 Replies
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Good question Mark. Put as much time into memory improvement as you find beneficial. More memory capacity sounds good to me. I have the memory of a gnat so even if i were to double it, I still am pretty weak. It is why I focused on how the puzzle all fits together rather than try to memorize this section or that section. Now I can play anything even if I have never heard it before. The more I go down the endless road the easier it becomes to recognize the clues as to where a song is going. One example is if I hear a 7chord it is telling me we are going somewhere I just have to figure out where. In key of G I hear the D and know it is the 5 chord and if I hear it with the 7 giving it that little twangy pull most of the time we are heading back to the G chord. If I am on a G and I hear C followed by a chromatic tone 99% of the time I am going to a D chord. Over time it has become intuitive (for me it is seemingly ungodly amounts of time but to be fair I am average or average- in musical aptitude). Super fun process as long as I stay in the process. Whatever you do just keep playing. Play more when you can. I guess my answer would be: memorizing is too granular for what I have upstairs, I telescope out and try to take in the biggest part of the picture I can stand.
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Memorization is hard for me too – there are so many things I need to keep in my brain’s rolodex that finding a spot to store music is indeed a challenge. So what I focus on is hearing the music. Being able to hum it to myself without playing .. then when I need to recall it, my ear tells me when I hit the wrong note. My fingers start to move without having to think about where to go next. It takes a really long time and I am not sure I will ever have anything fully committed to “memory” but I do get closer every time I practice a song.
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Jeff and Momma– WOW those are two remarkable answers!
I think I sort of mislabeled the title of the original post, actually. Maybe should’ve been something like “Too dependent on Tabs?”
I like to use the tabs for the Daily Lessons. I guess my thought was- (and maybe this works along with your responses)- in some way– does just “playing only what your seeing” actually hinder a person’s ability to “learn”, or “see”, or “feel”, or “anticipate” the music?
Wow- this is really hard to express in words, but I hope you get “the drift” of what I’m saying.
Now- your responses…. I can sum this up easily– YOU TWO are where I hope to be someday on being able to hear and feel and anticipate-along inside a song. And while it’s playing? That is really cool stuff!
In my original TAC pledge I said I hope to be able to play by ear someday, and I’m stickin’ to it.
I’m gonna somehow “favorit-ize” both posts and and put them in my “roadmap book”, and refer back to them from time to time. Thank you both.
Like a ball in a Pachinko game—
Mark J
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<div>I totally understand what you are asking.. so fascinating isn’t it. How we learn and retain vs instinctive playing is a question that I would love to be able to answer for myself as well. Looking forward to discovering the answers along with you.. 😃
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@Mark, you have two very strong approaches provided above, and I am going to offer a 3rd.
You like the tabs (which I kind of do), and I am guessing, you have no issue knowing which string and fret you see on the page, and can get to it. I wonder, can you move to that note by note by note without looking at your hands? If you can, and you will eventually, that is the memory you are worried about kicking in.
I build playing without looking as a goal to every lesson. Now I cannot do what @jumpin’Jeff can do (yet), and while I can do what @MommaTAC does, i don’t, as it never sounds like the string playing to me. But when I can move through the strings and frets without seeing where my hands are going (even for 2 or so bars of the lesson), I know that my memory is working. If it is a piece I like, I work on it without looking at the page. Success? Sometimes, but Progress? Always.
There is never one way to build skill, memory, tonal recognition. By working at it, though, you are moving toward your “by ear” goal, and great job.
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Interesting indeed. Actually I really try to see the tabs and yet play without looking at either hand. On purpose, I sometimes look “away”, sometimes eyes closed- (another member from another post said eyes closed helps them “see” better– me too!).
Most of the Daily Lessons have some type of pattern to them, which seems to make them easier somehow to play without “looking”.
I’d safely say- (after I get the hang of them)- I can play two-thirds of each of the “Dailies” and also the other course-stuff- (Barre, Fingerstyle, etc)- without looking at either hand. Maybe more after I’ve worked on them longer.
Not “Tony fast” mind you🤨, but that is of no concern for me right now.
I worked really hard today on focusing on “hearing” the lesson- and also– coincidentally– not looking at my hands and engaging my brain more. Cool!
Pushin’ that boulder up the mountain–
Mark J
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Mark Says:
“I like to use the tabs for the Daily Lessons. I guess my thought was- (and maybe this works along with your responses)- in some way– does just “playing only what your seeing” actually hinder a person’s ability to “learn”, or “see”, or “feel”, or “anticipate” the music? Wow- this is really hard to express in words, but I hope you get “the drift” of what I’m saying.”
Me:
<font face=”inherit”>Ya Buddy I get the drift. I am laughing because the way my head works TAB is my last resort when all else fails. I have not developed that skill at all. I say keep developing that skill but be aware there are others and they are different. Here at TAC you CAN do both if you want. I don’t think one hinders the other. They might possibly be mutually </font>beneficial<font face=”inherit”>. You can be a good swimmer and a good runner. I love pushing boulders </font>uphill. I just worry we may run outta hill,….nahhhhhhh.
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Hey Mark, you have started another great discussion! Can’t really add to the excellent comments other than my own experience.
I am working on Forked Deer from memory. I can hum it in my head just fine but I still hit a few wrong notes. At least I can tell when it’s the wrong note! I use the tab at the beginning, but think it’s best to memorize the tune as quickly as possible. It makes your ears work to distinguish what the next note should be.
This helps also if you transpose a song. For example I discovered completely by accident that I could play Forked Deer at the first fret instead of the third (i.e. no capo) using the exact same pattern of notes. So now the original tab is useless and you are forced to depend on your ears and fingers alone.
As for not looking at the fretboard… Oh man. I’m pointless. I should probably start working on that, along with playing standing up, which is also very hard for me.
Also I am playing the delay lessons very slow, far slower than the slowest speed in the video. Figure I’ll be closer the next time they cycle around.
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“daily” not “delay.” Posting new message because trying to a edit a post and save it causes it to disappear.
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WOW– your responses! This (our) TAC community is amazing…..
Funny how such great generosity, care, input, learning, and “realizing-we’re-all-connected” can come from some dumb/weird question-thought that just wandered across the “big screen in my brain” a few days ago.
I can’t fully express the gratitude .
The responses– off the scale. More pages in my Roadmap Book coming for sure!
I’m gonna take every one of these thoughts and ideas and try ’em– maybe start within a day or three– and then again in maybe 2 months. I save this stuff!
Just when I thought I was doin’ great– a new door has opened!- and it was just some brain-fart thought that started it……. amazing…….
To me– sharing ideas, advising, experience….. THIS IS THE TRUE ESSENCE OF LEARNING. And it is this TAC program and this Community-Forum that makes this stuff happen– for all of us!
Thanks to all- maybe more will come!?
Oh yeah—– Jeff- when you and that boulder get to the top- (spoiler)- it just rolls down the other side. That’s when a true Scandinavian- (that’d be yours truly)- unquestioningly runs around and starts again😧………..
…….could be the beer talkin’……
Mark J
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Well this scandinavian (yours truly) would be happy sharing the mountain with another boulder roller. I am just sad that I have to wait until it gets to the bottom before I can start rolling it up again.
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Well- I have two pieces of advice ….
1. (from what you said)– Do not try to stop it on its way down!!!
2. Make sure we’re both starting on the same side of the mountain.
🤨 Mark J
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Here’s another way of looking at it…
There’s nothing wrong with playing music while looking at a score/tab/chord sheet. Many musicians play often play their instruments in just this way in many contexts. Reading music off a page and playing it at the same time is just another kind of skill; it doesn’t mean you can or can’t play. As you get more familiar with a piece or a song, you don’t need to read each individual note, but you might still use the written music as a way of keeping track of where you are and knowing what comes next.
Memorization is yet another skill set. Consciously working on this skill is more efficient than just waiting around for it to happen through endless repetitions. I have found it easiest to learn little chunks at a time (a few bars), and then I progressively add more. I pay attention to repetitions and variations in the music to keep track of where I am. It takes time and consistent practice to memorize a piece of music.
Yet sometimes you don’t want to put that much effort into playing a song; maybe you don’t need to be able to play it anytime and anywhere without any kind of prompting. In that case, that’s why music is written down. There’s nothing wrong with it; it’s just another tool.
I prefer to think of the written music as a kind of scaffolding or support; I use it until I don’t need it. But if I REALLY want to play without any kind of written reference, then I need to consciously work on that piece of music.
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Now this is also interesting….
I have– again– read thru every word of this thread, and am– again– amazed at the responses.
So maybe- (I shortened your words)- “As you get more familiar with… a song… you don’t need each…note…but might use the written music as a way of keeping track…”?
So after I’ve played a lesson or a lick or a portion of a song or whatever— enough times– (using the tab)- is there a point where it’s just kinda there to help “guide” me thru the parts I don’t have memorized yet?
Interesting— I feel like that is where I’m at. Just didn’t realize it!
After reading your post this morning, I really took notice of this in today’s practice.
What I noticed– In the same way I can play most of a lesson without looking at my hands, -I’m rough-guessing- (after I’ve “learned it“ and played it lots of times, of course)- I can play almost that much without looking at the tabs. So that’s interesting/ cool.
Is this from memory? or the start of intuition? Both? Did a light just come on?
So this just opens another door!– I’m gonna start thinking about how to become more “intuitive”, music-wise- (a la Jeff and MommaTAC’s first posts in this thread). That’s gonna take some music-edu-ma-cation, in keys and chords-within keys stuff. If it isn’t obvious– I’ve not really started in there yet.
But, hey, with zero music background– at all– maybe I’m actually right about where I “should” be 🤔 (whatever that means)….. and I feel really good about that!
Uh-oh— now it seems there is more than one boulder.
Mark J
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Here is a really unintuitive way that memory works… Practice, then get good sleep at night, then try again the next day. Short term memory and motor skills are kind of transferred to long term during sleep or so I have read a couple places.
Now if I could figure out that good sleep bit, I would be Johnny Mnemonic!
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My whole 100 Day Project is based on memorization, not at all on performance. Like you, I figured out that memory can be key to playing, so that’s why I force myself to memorize and play something each day. I know that much of what I’ve learned will be part of short term memory and gone tomorrow. But the seed of that song will be planted, and I can grow it from there with more practice.
My advice is to memorize all you can. It’s amazing the difference in how you play when you don’t have to rely on reading and then processing each measure in the song.
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To “memorize” something- don’t you have to have already “learned” it?– (example– you have to DO something before you can remember what you did….).
The learning part is what’s fascinating to me. Some can learn a song by being able to just HEAR it and play along intuitively- (wow that’d be cool!). Some learn a song by repitition/repitition/repitition until it’s ingrained in their head and/or can “mostly” play it from the tabs. Some maybe learn a song more by memorizing each note.
We’ve all seen a high-school band or orchestra play thru a song- they all turn the page at the same time- just reading off the sheet music. Maybe it doesn’t even matter to them what the song is- they are just playing notes one after one, and not learning the song at all…. in this case it seems to a certain extent like they aren’t learning or memorizing the song.
Maybe different methods work for different people- (that’s my best guess).
I need another cup of green tea-
Mark J
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This reply was modified 3 years, 10 months ago by
the-old-coach.
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This reply was modified 3 years, 10 months ago by
the-old-coach.
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This reply was modified 3 years, 10 months ago by
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This discussion seems to have run its course🤔. Thank you all for your insight and sharing. This was a great thread. I think it really applied to learning to play guitar- and maybe about learning anything, really.
Happy Easter- and good health!-
Mark J
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