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  • Scale Shapes (Patterns?)

    Posted by jdwpdx47 on June 24, 2021 at 10:47 pm

    I am about eight months into the TAC routine and making good progress by focusing on the Daily Challenge. I’ve heard Tony use the term “shapes” to describe chords, which I get. But I’ve heard him use “shape” when discussing a scale. Do scales have shapes or patterns that are unique somehow? Are those patterns different for each key? Im having a hard time visualizing this concept. Short of trying to draw the scale patterns myself, is there a TAC reference or lesson that would help me connect the dots on this? Thanks.

    jdwpdx47 replied 3 years, 7 months ago 9 Members · 17 Replies
  • 17 Replies
  • JohnV

    Member
    June 25, 2021 at 8:16 am

    Hi, yes they can have a shape. The shape may also correspond to the position on the fretboard and or CAGED shape. These are lightly touched on during the Fretboard Wizzard course. If you have zero music theory, this is a great course to give a good foundation.

    But as an example: A common major scale in the key of G starting on the 6th string (thickest string) 3rd fret would be:

    6th string: 3 5 (G A)

    5th string: 2 3 5 (B C D)

    4th string: 2 4 5 (E F#, G 1st octave and starting note of second octave)

    3rd string: 2 4 5 (A B C)

    2nd string: 3 5 (D E)

    1st string: 2 3 (F# G 2nd octave)

    If you can visualize this pattern, there is a shape.

    Now start on the 5th fret of the 6th string and shift all the positions up 2 frets and you will have the major scale for 2 octaves in the key of A.

    There are many other scale shape patterns depending on which string you start on and which chord shape you are outlining.

    • This reply was modified 3 years, 7 months ago by  JohnV.
    • This reply was modified 3 years, 7 months ago by  JohnV.
    • Marty73

      Member
      June 25, 2021 at 9:32 am

      👍

    • Kim-Fitz

      Member
      June 25, 2021 at 5:49 pm

      Hi John, I also don’t understand most of the scales and fretboard. Is there a book or site that would be good for beginner guitar theory. I don’t have access to Fretboard Wizard for some reason and have contacted support twice about availability but have not gotten any answers. I would really like to learn this stuff and I feel like what I’ve seen online is not explained at a beginner level. Any thoughts?

      • Alisa

        Member
        June 26, 2021 at 6:50 am

        The administrators told me they will open registration soon, once the website troubles are done. That was back in May and it looks like they fixed the website, so I’m hoping any day now. I’ve heard from other members that usually it runs twice a year in the spring and in the fall, so I suspect we’ll have to wait for the fall.

      • Kim-Fitz

        Member
        June 28, 2021 at 8:59 pm

        Thanks for the info

      • Kim-Fitz

        Member
        June 28, 2021 at 9:02 pm

        thank you

      • JohnV

        Member
        June 26, 2021 at 8:00 am

        Fretboard wizard is a purchased add on. At least I had to pay for it. I thought you could buy it and do the course at your own pace. The group session is not 100% live but Tony does a open session every few weeks when the group sessions are run. The advantage of doing it at those times is that you will benefit from others taking the course and having similar questions you may have. The course was a bit pricey to me but it is really good for someone with little to no theory. The plus side is once you purchase it, you have unlimited access to it for as long as it is on the internet.

      • Kim-Fitz

        Member
        June 28, 2021 at 8:58 pm

        Thanks

      • Alisa

        Member
        June 29, 2021 at 5:24 am

        I think if you purchase it when you sign up for this website, you can take it at your own pace anytime. But if you don’t, you have to wait until they open the registration. Once you buy it, it’s yours forever so you can do it anytime. That is what I gathered from other members’ comments. I’m a bit obsessed with it; I want to have access so bad.

  • jdwpdx47

    Member
    June 25, 2021 at 4:53 pm

    Thanks, John V. Your explanation and diagram were helpful. I have completed the Fretboard Wizard course and it was terrific. I recall how the C-A-G-E-D chord shapes can be moved up the neck to different fret positions but I don’t recall referencing scales. I’ll have to double back. Also, where did you find the scale diagrams that you shared? Was that in TAC somewhere? Thanks again. JW

    • JohnV

      Member
      June 25, 2021 at 6:31 pm

      You’re welcome jdwpdx47. The cage shape scales are in one of the pdf files of fret wiz. The diagram I used was from a Google search of major scale pattern. Then I looked through the image results and found one that for my explanation.

  • GuitarGeni

    Member
    June 25, 2021 at 5:10 pm

    Everything that JohnV said plus, the patterns are movable, just like barre chords. So once you know a pattern in one key, you can move it up or down the fretboard to change keys.

    There are seven different modes (moods) which correspond to the 7 (A B C D E F G) possible starting notes of a pattern within the scale. These are also moveable.

    You will need to know where those 7 notes are located on the low E and A for the majority of chords. It will also be helpful to learn the note locations on the D string too, but it can wait a while.

  • Cadgirl

    Member
    June 26, 2021 at 5:25 am

    @jdwpdx47 ; I would highly recommend the Fretboard Wizard course. It will open your eyes to everything. I had to use the “community support” on some sections so don’t be afraid to ask. The Fretboard Wizard is well worth the money it cost.

  • Niv

    Member
    June 29, 2021 at 8:06 am

    Get fretboard Wizard – what really has helped me from the course, was how to find chords from songs…I can now naildown the key being played and from there pretty much guess the chords they are using…now, rather than just listening to songs, I’ve got my guitar in hand and I’m playing along…once you get it, you have it on your dashboard to go back to anytime…

  • jdwpdx47

    Member
    June 29, 2021 at 11:26 am

    Thanks for all the feedback, everyone. I did complete the Fretboard Wizard about six months ago and it was terrific. I’ll be going back over it again to renew my understanding of scale shapes. Understanding there are a limited number of scale shapes is encouraging to know. And on the daily challenge practice tabs, I’ve begun writing the scale notes to reinforce learning the notes as well as the position of the notes within the shape. This was all very helpful, everyone.

    • Bill_Brown

      Member
      June 30, 2021 at 10:03 am

      Hi @jdwpdx47 , I just wanted to add that, like @JohnV mentioned, there are other major scale patterns (that are movable) on the fretboard. I’ll use JohnV’s template of string# and fret# to explain one that I’ve learned:

      Major scale in the key of G

      6th string: 3-5-7 (G-A-B)

      5th string: 3-5-7 (C-D-E)

      4th string: 4-5-7 (F#-G[1st octave]-A)

      3rd string: 4-5-7 (B-C-D)

      2nd string: 5-7-8 (E-F#-G[2nd octave]) You could stop here, or continue on to the 3rd octave.

      1st string: 5-7-8-10-12-14-15 (A-B-C-D-E-F#-G)

      This pattern is movable as well, the fret#’s and the notes will change but the string#s and spacing between frets will remain the same. So to play the major scale in the key of A, just move the above pattern up 2 frets – exactly the way it was done with the pattern that JohnV demonstrated💡 I only wish I was as computer savvy enough to show a fretboard visualization like JohnV (lol)😱

      • This reply was modified 3 years, 7 months ago by  Bill_Brown.
      • jdwpdx47

        Member
        July 5, 2021 at 5:39 pm

        Thanks, Bill. Very helpful

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