Tony’s Acoustic Challenge – The New Way to Learn Guitar › Family Forums › Community Support › From playing along with a song– to playing a song
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From playing along with a song– to playing a song
Posted by the-old-coach on July 21, 2021 at 6:45 pmWell, I guess the title about says it.
I’m sorry if this subject has been tossed around in here before and I missed it.
So how can I go from playing along with a song- (as in Tabs), to actually just playing it- (and maybe singing-ugh- nobody wants that)- all on my own- from memory.
Is something like this even the “right” path– or is there a better way?
Been here in TAC just over 6 months and love it- and this Community. I think I’m improving pretty well in my skills and movement/efficiency, guitar-wise, and I’m excited about a “next step” for me.
I know you didn’t ask🙂– but here are a few things I’m thinkin’ about:
Learning more how to play music- (beyond Daily lessons– although still focus on the skills they bring!), continue theory, learn a few songs by direct memory, and maybe even think about accumulating a small pile of recording and video stuff and get it set up in a back-bedroom. That would be way COOL.
First things first- is there a “right way” to start to learn to play music- beyond the Daily lessons. This has to be the “normal progression”, right? Do I slowly just “move” over from Tabbed-songs to playing them on my own- learning them more & more as I repeat them- until I no longer need the Tabs?
If something like that isn’t it– what is. I can’t be the only one on this guitar journey who wants to know the path…….. and there are no better advisors on the planet than the people who might read this post- (that’d be YOU!). Huge thanks in advance!
Sorry about being long-winded- (again)- (it’s not my best trait….).
Quite sincerely- Mark J
the-old-coach replied 3 years, 6 months ago 7 Members · 18 Replies -
18 Replies
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First, let me say @mkjohnsons , I like long-winded people. That way, I know I won’t be criticized for being long-winded. 😂
As far as learning to play a cover song, there are a number of ways to do that and none of them are “wrong”. I have learned to play cover songs from the sheet music when I didn’t even know the song or had ever even heard it.
Generally, I would think we were talking about a song you know well enough to have an idea of how the melody goes. The tab will tell you what chords to play and link the words to the chords. I find it much easier to learn a song with singing the lyrics, because the lyrics tell me where I am in the song. I link chords and chord changes to the words I am singing. If you start off trying to sing and play at the same time, it will seem “normal”. But if you spend time learning the guitar “first” and try to sing with your playing after you have been playing long enough to reach some fluidity, you will think singing and playing is nearly impossible.
So let’s start there. If you ever want to sing and play together, do it from the beginning. The better someone is at playing guitar, the more reluctant they are to learn to sing along with their playing if they have never done it.
Second, playing the song from the tab until it is fairly familiar and then trying to play from memory is a fine idea. Tony has suggested we break it down into small chunks. Whatever size chunk you can bite off, play that until it’s pretty familiar. Then add the next chunk. There is no right or wrong way. Many people advocate learning to play songs by ear. If you can learn that way, you will be far ahead of the game.
Anyway, I think you are more than far enough along to try learning songs. I look forward to hearing your first attempt. I hope you will post it.
MG 😀
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Mike– Thanks for this well-thought-out answer. It’s perfect.
There’s a lot in there- I’ve already read it three times, and picked out something new each time. It’s gonna take me a bit to take these pieces of knowledge, one or two at a time, and start putting them in motion.
Wow- my guitar-excitement level just went waaaay up!
Please don’t hesitate to toss some more gold out there- I think there are MANY of us wondering about this same subject.
PS- your answer in the other thread is also right on.
Appreciative- Mark J
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@mkjohnsons ,Mark, you are so welcome. The time I spend reading someone’s post and then responding is SO worth it when I hear that the person benefited. But to hear your guitar-excitement level went up motivates me to spend more time contributing to this marvelous community. So thank you for that.
I did my best to explain the process of learning a cover song. But please don’t hesitate to ask additional, more specific questions. I would be very happy to explain any aspect in greater detail.
MG 😀
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@mkjohnsons Mark .Thank for taking the time to ask this ?. This is helpful to me as well. I have done one thing that seems to have been helpful for me without actually singing songs is to sing the names of the chords Im playing to the beat of my strumming patterns. This seems to be helping me with the timing of strum patterns and reinforcing the names of the chords. My voice seems to be improving. Cheers!
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Awesome- thanks👍 I can see how those kinds of tips really work.
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This reply was modified 3 years, 6 months ago by
the-old-coach.
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This reply was modified 3 years, 6 months ago by
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First, I’m glad that you, also, have benefitted, @MarkD66 . Second, I think your idea of singing the chord names is a great way to get familiar with the chords and the melody. It’s a way of breaking the task down into a smaller bite.
MG 😀
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Hi @mkjohnsons , a really great question you pose. When if first started I was so eager to learn some tunes I just did them kinda whatever way I could and initially due to my impatience I learned many a tune wrong, meaning not the way the composer had written it. Over time I became aware that a good amount of the coolness of the songs I liked and wanted to play was in the details (great example of this is Neil Young’s Old Man, the changes don’t happen at the measure or even half measure but rather at 3/4 measure with a single beat change at the end to catch everything up) Of course I was not into simple songs, right?… I found myself going back and relearning most of what I had initially learned. Over my life I had always been focused on the vocal without much thought to rhythm and changes. My story is about going from being lyric focused to chord change focused. Today once I get the changes and the rhythm then I start to lay lyrics on top. It can come in the form of vocal or instrumental melody. I work the structure, the bones of the song if you will and then flesh it out. The words are the last thing. This transition of focus took me a while, as in years…to be fair I am a slow learner.
As for the memorization, for me that seems to only happen with repetition. I have to play something over and over….like a three minute song I have to play 10 times in a row everyday for three months and then I get it. For me it is repetition over time that locks it in. It took me two years to learn Robert Earl Keens Gringo Honeymoon…lotta words in that song plus the strumming pattern was an adventure unto itself.
Now I dissect stuff measure by measure to get it right. Does it take a long time? Yes it does, but it is one of the most satisfying puzzles to work out. And taking the time to get it right helps me play it like I cant get it wrong. And when I am done…there is no more guessing.
Here is the best part of it all: the more I do it the faster it goes. #Small win….winning!
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JumpinJeff–
WOW– that’s cool stuff. My response to Mike’s post- (earlier)- is the very same…. here! (I don’t want to sound more like a dork than usual and repeat it).
One of my favorite songs of all time is Neil Young’s- “Old Man”. It was one of the ones I banged-away on, playing tabs– (shallow-ly like that method is)– for years. I could actually play that pretty well. You have now “peeled back a layer” on that song for me. I will dig in, pay much more attention to the workings of it, and attempt to actually learn it. I love that song- it will be nothing resembling work.
Thanks again- and as always- don’t hesitate to add more when it comes to you.
Mark J
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Hi Mark. Someone (guitargeezer?) shared this link a week ago that helped me a lot:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttSjXUlsuxA
In that video, Tony says you have to print out the lyrics with the chords printed above the words. I do that and play with that piece of paper in front of me. That way I don’t have to worry about remembering the lyrics or the chord progressions, and I can just play. It still misses one piece: the actual melody you’re singing. (or in my case, “singing” lol). For some songs, I have to look up the song on spotify (or your music streaming platform of choice) and listen to it phrase by phrase, then try to reproduce it from memory. It’s a repetitive process. By the time I can play and sing the song fully with the lyrics in front of me, I probably played it dozens of times, so then I can practice by putting not looking at the lyrics.
For instrumental songs (like things that GuitarNick posts) I learn the song by heart like one would learn a poem. Phrase by phrase. I first play through the song a couple of times using the tabs, to get a feel for it. Then, I learn it in small chunks of one to four measures, depending on how complicated it is. That takes a few days. In between, I will listen to the song without playing and see if it aligns with what is stored in my memory. That also helps to keep a big-picture vision of the song. At some point, patterns emerge that help me remember.
This is just my process, I’m not saying it’s the correct one or one that would work for you. When I was a kid and I was being “classically trained” in piano and cello, my brother, who is 12 years older than me and a musical prodigy, told me I have to be able to read a piece of music from the notes sheet and hear it fully in my head before even attempting to play it. So that’s an example of a methodology that did NOT work for me lol.
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Alisa-
Thank you for this video- it is great stuff!
Maybe more importantly- are your own insights and suggestions. Like SO MANY posts in the TAC forums, from so many great folks, it is that kind of information that helps….. instantly. For me, it takes away some of my own “paralysis-by-analysis” problem🤔.
Reading your post made me smile….. At least 10 years ago, I started a 3-ring notebook of favorite songs. Coincidentally- (per your suggestion)- I typed the lyrics to a couple-dozen songs, each one its own Word document- with the properly-located chord- (in red-bold)- directly above each chord change. It worked- and still to this day– works great for me. It’s easy on my eyes- (not “cluttery”), and easy to follow. I still use that old notebook!- now even more that I’m in TAC.
This playing and singing stuff is gonna be tough for me- probably like most folks, I guess. Not so bad in private. So, I’m gonna GO FOR IT- (in private for now), though, because I think it’s a normal progression thing. Partly just for the challenge and fun of it. Partly because I want to be able to play guitar kind-of “automatically”- (while my brain is focusing on lyrics and melody). Playing thru distractions.
I really think THAT SKILL IN ITSELF is a huge part of learning the guitar. Watch real entertainers– they can probably play those songs while eating breakfast and reading the paper! (sorry about the caps- this forum does weird things when you put something in italics).
Anyway, it took me years to even play guitar anywhere anyone could hear me. Don’t know if it was embarrassment somehow, or what. Maybe I felt like I couldn’t keep up with our old arch-enemy– “expectation”- because I couldn’t play it like on TV. Maybe small steps on this playing-singing stuff…. Playing and singing in front of others scares the crap out of me!
I might be able to stumble thru it with several brewskis in me😜– and joining in with others- (certainly not alone😳)- but I suppose that would certainly affect my guitar playing!
Anyway- Thank you for your thoughts and suggestions!
Long-winded me- (makin’ Mike proud)-
Mark J
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Hey Mark, @mkjohnsons
So playing and singing, or just playing, or just singing, our ego is involved on a big level. To play in front of others, you either have to think you are hot shit, or you have to be willing to make a fool of yourself. It makes no difference how good you actually are, it only matters how good you THINK you are.
I hope this helps. By the way, sometimes I STILL get upset while trying to play in front of others because I’m not in the right mood to be willing to make a fool of myself. So thanks for reminding me that is what it takes.
MG 😀
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Please excuse me if this is a dumb question….
Are these “Acoustic Life” videos available “inside” our TAC program, or do I go thru a separate- (maybe)- “Acoustic Life” website? Looks like there are quite a lot of them, and they look interesting!
Ooops- my computer skills are showing.
Thanks- Mark J
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It’s not a dumb question Mark @mkjohnsons No question is dumb. It simply means you don’t know something. We all don’t know lots of things.
Anyway, yes, you can go to the YouTube channel “Acoustic Life” and see all the videos available. At the bottom left of the video above, you will notice “Watch on (icon)YouTube”. Click on that and it will open the video up in another window and you will be on YouTube. Then, hover over the profile pic above the title “Acoustic Life” below and to the left of the video’s screen, and click on it. That will take you to the home page of Acoustic Life’s “channel”.
I hope this helps.
MG 😀
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Please indulge me for a minute.
This thread and this TAC family here reminds me of a time a lotta years ago.
I had one old line crew foreman back in the 70’s-80’s who was pretty damn great. Ornery, but great. And tough?- oh, yeah, tough as they come.
I was probably pretty hot-headed and “full of p#ss & vinegar” at the time- (you had to be at that time- to survive in that trade). Anyway, I remember he sat me down one day and said “Kid, you don’t get ahead by keepin’ everybody else down– you get ahead by pullin’ everybody below you on up.”
I never forgot that moment. I remember it like it was yesterday.
6 months ago I stumbled upon TAC- and this “family”, and there it is!
To me, that’s what our TAC family does BEST- they help the ones behind them in the journey. And you/we all really get nothin’ for it except knowing we’ve helped.
If that ain’t the definition of cool- nothin’ is.
I’ve been to put this into words for awhile- and suddenly– out it came.
Thanks for readin’ it– Mark J
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You know @Mark , I think you just have to walk away from the tab sheet. Here is my story for you. I only play the guitar to myself (been playing a guitar since 10-2-2020). My husband came into my studio while I was on the TAC site. He asked me to play him a song. So I get out my music sheet and he says “no, you have been playing long enough, no sheet”. UGH! I froze and couldn’t do it. So the next day, I forced myself to put the sheet music away and try to remember a song (my goal song was Dream a Little Dream of me). I swear, it didn’t take that long to remember how to finger pick it and sing it. I still haven’t sang and played in front of anyone, but this was a WAY big win for me to accomplish. I hope this helps you out a little. It can be done.
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This is very interesting. And surely something I’m aiming for.
Question- How do I have access to a song that just pops into my head, that I might want to play and learn- (and save and set aside for future)- without the internet tab-stuff- (e-chords, etc)? It’s just so easily accessible, easy to print and save, easy to play along with, etc.
It just makes it so easy to get the repetitions- that make the memorization happen- (where you are). Me too, someday!
If I find a song- maybe an old favorite- that I really want to explore and get into, I make my word document, placing every word, line, verse, chorus, etc,– and then put in the chords above in red– in exactly the right spots. Sometimes I put an alternate chord in parentheses right next to the original chord- as I’m messin’ with it in my head- typing it out. I actually think there is some memorizing going on in just doing this step……
Anyway, it all seems to make it very easy to get the reps- (inc. any little parts inside the song that I’m stuck on— chord transitions, etc).
After a while, I’ve memorized the chords, transitions, etc, and I only use these sheets for the words- which I pretty-much have learned by then anyhow.
But then, it seems, that’s where I kind-of quit. I move on to something different… SQUIRREL!!😄
Maybe that’s where your suggestion- to “dig in” and put in the work to get it really learned!
I will take your suggestion to heart, pick one of my faves, and follow it through! Man, it would be cool, to just grab my guitar and play- (and maybe sing- at least to myself for now😳!)- a complete song— only off of memory!
By the way— what you have done there is a HUGE win!!!!
Thanks again— I hope more folks weigh in on this!
Mark J
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This reply was modified 3 years, 6 months ago by
the-old-coach.
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This reply was modified 3 years, 6 months ago by
the-old-coach.
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This reply was modified 3 years, 6 months ago by
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