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Tony’s Acoustic Challenge – The New Way to Learn Guitar Family Forums Community Support I Want to Play Songs incorporating licks and improv, this new site doesn’t do it

  • I Want to Play Songs incorporating licks and improv, this new site doesn’t do it

    Posted by SteveinCT on June 16, 2021 at 9:35 am

    I have read many who know of the prior TAC site, but I came here after changes. Still, was it consensus to get rid of the songs…I ventured over to the songs site, and there are some “intermediate” and “difficult” level songs, which is what I want to learn. Tony is an inventive player, I’d much rather have him show how to incorporate his riffs into a song than just noodle around with the thirds notes of today’s “Hacksaw Jim Duggan” or that tuneful “Slapshot” daily “lesson” from Jun 8….

    Another aspect to this is the Skills courses, which IMO are not detailed enough. For example, I completed “Decoding Alternate Tunings,” and sure, I know now how to tune the guitar in open G or D, etc., but hey, show me how to play some tunes in open G, that’s a banjo key, a blues key, and acoustic Rolling Stones key! Where’s the value if members have to use third party You Tube vids to learn to play songs using those open tunings? In the now-inactive Songs section, Tony shows his arrangement of the tried and true “I Know You Rider,” and he uses alternate DADGAD tuning, and shows how to play it….wouldn’t that be what the Skills section on Alternate Tuning should incorporate? One administrator told me this is what the members wanted, and they obliged. How come?

    dr_dave replied 3 years, 7 months ago 19 Members · 53 Replies
  • 53 Replies
  • N-lightMike

    Member
    June 16, 2021 at 11:35 am

    Hey @SteveinCT , There are many sites teaching guitar. However, there are also many ideas on what that means. What is the best approach? That’s what you are talking about, the approach to teaching guitar.

    This site is dedicated to teaching skills in such a way that we can figure out how to do covers ourselves and/or write our own music. If you just want to copy someone who copied someone and never become the original guitar player yourself, you are in luck. There are a bunch of sites out there that do that. But if you want to learn to be an original guitar player, well, you’re still in luck because you found one of the few sites that do that, and maybe the only site that does that very effectively.

    These, of course, are my opinions. If you don’t like my opinions, you’re in luck again. Most people don’t agree with my opinions.

    MG 😀

    • Cadgirl

      Member
      June 18, 2021 at 5:28 am

      @MikeGaurnier I agree with you. Well put too.,

    • SteveinCT

      Member
      June 18, 2021 at 11:23 am

      @MikeGaurnier, thx for your opinions. I am an original, we all are originals–but I want to add on and be a decent player using a percussive fingerstyle in alternate tunings….and a somewhat decent slide player, also using open tunings….am I in the right place in your view? Will there be weeks ahead when the dailies focus on this……existing Skills classes on these areas are just introductory in approach…

      • N-lightMike

        Member
        June 18, 2021 at 1:19 pm

        @SteveinCT said: “I want to add on and be a decent player using a percussive fingerstyle in alternate tunings….and a somewhat decent slide player, also using open tunings….am I in the right place in your view?”

        My first answer would be: Yes, I believe you are in the right place for that. However, I would point you toward the Skills Courses that cover these aspects of guitar technique. Since you mention that “these are just introductory in approach”, I would have to assume you have already looked at the Skills Courses that are available and found them lacking.

        That leads me to my second answer: Tony does not take the skills he teaches us and apply them to a song. He leaves that up to us to do for ourselves. If you want someone to show you step by step how to put these techniques into a song, then the answer is: No, this is not the right site, you will have to find another site.

        In my opinion, “introductory” is all that is necessary. Let me explain.

        I have used some free YouTube channels to learn specific songs. However, I’ve come to realize I could have figured these things out for myself and I would have gained understanding that I could apply to any song and not just one song.

        That’s where I’m at currently. I’m no longer looking for song tutorials, but putting in the effort to work up my own songs. I have held back from putting the skills Tony teaches into songs that I play out of fear or self doubt or whatever is the correct psycho-analytical explanation. But after learning a number of songs the way a specific person arranged it on guitar, I have come to realize there is no reason I couldn’t do that. These “instructors” teach me nothing that Tony hasn’t already taught me. The only difference between these instructors and me is they had the courage to experiment on their own till they could work up a song and I haven’t put in that effort… yet.

        Doing my own song work ups, or arrangements is just another part of my guitar journey that no one can take for me. If I never do this I will never learn to do it and I will always be dependent on someone else to figure out how to use a guitar to imitate all the different parts of a song that was originally performed by a band.

        One of the things I have heard from a number of different instructors is that I don’t have to hit the exact same strings they are hitting. In other words, there’s no “right answer”. I just needed to go forth and start experimenting putting the techniques I have learned to use in a specific song. The arrangement that I come up with will be my own original arrangement, and not someone else’s.

        The skills and understanding I gain from arranging covers of other people’s songs will help me to write my own songs. I have already written some songs but I have put that effort on hold as I can’t “finish” them or make them sound “polished”. What do I mean? Exactly what we are talking about. If I can’t take a song that already exists and work up an arrangement on my guitar that sounds “complete” and “polished” how am I supposed to make my own original song sound “complete” and “polished”?

        So, my advice to you is to jump into the deep end of the pool. But I admit that I didn’t do that. I first found some alternate sites. At least I saved my money and used what was available for free. Otherwise, I’d have felt foolish after figuring out I was not actually learning anything new that wasn’t available right here on TAC.

        I know this is long, but I hope that sharing the experiences of my journey can help you.

        MG 😀

      • SteveinCT

        Member
        June 18, 2021 at 4:59 pm

        thx much @,MikeGaurnier for your detailed response. Yes, I hear your journey. At risk of TMI, based on your profile, let’s say that I started some 30 years before you, and it was songs, and certain players who inspired me (and I’m sure all of TAC ) to first pick up a guitar. And yeah, when starting out, I learned how to read music (no tabs then), played mostly electric but some acoustic, often with others, had a teacher, have continued playing a lot, but not consistently.

        Now, with TAC, I came upon an ad tacked 😀onto a podcast less than 60 days ago and Tony made it sound like a cool space and a 60 day money back. Frankly I don’t understand people saying to the effect it’s ok to pay Tony just to point out a direction, you just develop it and walk the creative path alone, amidst the TAC community, or words to that effect. MG, that doesn’t cut it with some intricate stylings, such as percussive fingerstyle in both standard and alternate tunings, and some slide. You now have to know the fretboard notes in those different tunings, and there’s differences in rhythmics, finding the chord notes, you name it. It’s lile another instrument. Skills courses are spotty, and many are now free on YouTube. It’s possible that w/TAC 2.0, Tony is aware that focusing on some difficult stuff will often prompt people to discontinue playing. I don’t know. Obviously you have a contrary opinion. It’s too bad even the TAC mentors have no idea what’s going on. But good luck in songwriting, I’ve been there, it’s great to develop and hear your inner voice…..

  • Loraine

    Member
    June 16, 2021 at 12:16 pm

    Hi @SteveinCT Thanks for your thoughts. Your being told by the Administrators that the song vault was decommissioned at the request of the members is news to me. I loved the song vault (which I guess is available to anyone now even though I paid for it). I would like to see songs incorporated again in the skills section. When I took the Jumpstart to Fingerpicking and Flatpicking, the end result was the ability to play a full song, and I loved it. It did teach me skills that I’ve been able to incorporate in other ways, so my opinion is that having songs attached to the skills lessons would be extremely beneficial.

    • Cadgirl

      Member
      June 18, 2021 at 5:07 am

      @Loraine , I totally agree with you. I liked doing all those lessons that lead me into a full song. I can’t believe members would have asked the admin to remove the song vault. That doesn’t even make any sense.

  • jumpinjeff

    Member
    June 16, 2021 at 12:20 pm


    @SteveinCT
    said: “One administrator told me this is what the members wanted, and they obliged. How come?”

    I can’t answer how come they obliged…..I can answer why I am here. I came here because I wanted to learn to play guitar. I spent an embarrassingly long time learning what I now identify as “guitar choreography” with frustrating results. Results that did not allow me to play with others. I learned songs and complex sequences of notes by rote memory and this had two distinct disadvantages. 1.If I missed a note mid sequence and fell out of time I had no way to get back into the song without starting at the very beginning. 2. I had not developed the physical hand, finger muscle dexterity and was missing the strong mind muscle connection necessary to play what I was trying to play. This forced me into chasing speed, which turns out to be my biggest source of inaccuracy, uncertainty and sloppy playing. There are many teachers out there who are primarily focused on this method of teaching. Some are great teachers. That method was not where I found success. I wanted to learn more than sequential memorization of one note to the next song playing. I wanted to learn how to play guitar not just a song on the guitar. This is what I found here at TAC. It is the distinguishing feature of this site. Here I am able to build my skills. I found skill building is not an overnight endeavor. Ha, when I got here I thought it was. I was able to increase my theory knowledge on an as needed basis. I started at zero. Okay, I knew about middle C and do rey me, yadda yadda. It was a slow process for me because I think I may just be a slow learner. All that said I now know how to play guitar. I can sit down with someone and play a song with them I have never heard. This was always what I wanted to be able to do. Now I continue building my skills, incorporating the layers of theory I have learned into my intuitive playing. I am still amazed by what I learn in the daily lessons regarding theory stuff I missed the first 12 times through. My experience has been this, the more I know the more I am able to extract new knowledge from what seemed initially to be an easy lesson. So that is why I am here: I want to play guitar and know it inside and out, multi-dimensionally, so I don’t have to struggle to learn how to play a song on guitar. I want to be able to pick up and play anywhere with anyone who wants to play.That is what I have learned how to do at TAC. Lotta words but the question was more than a simple yes or no answer would satisfy. 📝😄

    • Marty73

      Member
      June 16, 2021 at 12:36 pm

      👍

    • Bill_Brown

      Member
      June 16, 2021 at 2:52 pm

      👍👍

    • AttyTJ

      Member
      June 17, 2021 at 8:59 am

      👍. Thoughtful and useful as always, @jumpinjeff . Thanks

    • the-old-coach

      Member
      June 17, 2021 at 9:38 pm

      Jeff-

      Wow. I read through your response three times, and got something new out of it each time. Thank you for it.

      I hope you left crumbs as you went thru your guitar journey- for me to follow…….

      Man- I’ve got some work ahead’a me. There’s a boulder and a mountain waitin’.

      Always- thanks-

      Mark J

      • jumpinjeff

        Member
        June 18, 2021 at 10:04 am

        @mkjohnsons said: “Man- I’ve got some work ahead’a me. There’s a boulder and a mountain waitin’.”

        Shoulder to shoulder we push the boulder and up the mountain it rolls.

        After so long our fingers get strong, our minds connect with our hands

        for we find fun, we get everything done

        to merry make music in bonnie bands

        Roll boulder roll, Roll boulder roll.


      • the-old-coach

        Member
        June 18, 2021 at 3:08 pm

        Jeff-

        For me, it doesn’t get any better than advice and perspective(s) that you and Mike G. bring to the table here. Amazing stuff really.

        Based on both of your description(s) from both of yours’ past posts about where you were when you “started” guitar, and how you learned- (and still learn), to where you two are now— I think- (and hope)- I’m following similar paths as you both did- though obviously well behind.

        I am really OK with workin’ away at the daily lessons and a few of the skills courses at this point, because I think that is the RIGHT way to learn guitar.

        A line in your first post in this thread was- “I wanted to learn how to play guitar, not just a song on the guitar.” That’s where I’m at.

        From a still-pretty-much-newbie’s viewpoint, the TAC program is right on the money. Gotta eat the veggies before you get dessert.

        Mark J

      • jumpinjeff

        Member
        June 18, 2021 at 5:05 pm

        👍😀

    • N-lightMike

      Member
      June 18, 2021 at 1:20 am

      Nicely said @jumpinjeff 😎

  • ErikBog

    Member
    June 16, 2021 at 3:07 pm

    If you want to learn songs, Tac is not the best source. Guitartrick is very good in that aspect

    Tac is good at giving you a daily practice routine and support through the community.

    This has led to me playing every day over the past 3 years, enjoying it and being more able to learn songs from different sources.

  • Bill_Brown

    Member
    June 16, 2021 at 3:28 pm

    Hi @SteveinCT , I hear what you’re saying along with @Loraine , it’s a good idea and may have some merit. But I have to agree with @jumpinjeff . What I see (between the “Skills” courses and the Daily challenges) is that we are being shown a way to learn, which allows us to grow at our own pace. Playing notes on the scales against backing tracks allows for the 1) ability to understand the scale fully – to know the notes that are 3rds and fifths etc. and how they fit with the chords of those backing tracks and 2) eventually a way to come up with our own melodies, so that we can do an improv (solo) – on our own, using what we’ve learned – no, we won’t be Rock Stars overnight😱 But I do have confidence that I’m learning and understanding, musically, what I’ve learned to this point in time! Talk to me in 3 months and I’m confident that I’ll know and understand a little more – as things click in my head and transpose into my guitar playing abilities🤩

  • Alfun

    Member
    June 16, 2021 at 5:45 pm

    I agree that TAC builds knowledge and skills. That’s it’s main purpose. But putting those skills into to practice needs some songs that link to those skills. The song vault, which I paid for, was part of that process. I play alone, not as part of a jam group or band. Songs and song backing tracks is what I would like to see as part of my learning process.

  • SteveinCT

    Member
    June 17, 2021 at 8:11 pm

    OK, good to read comments, and I’m aware there’s 14,000 TAC members worldwide and not every one is a beginner, and some are seasoned players. I had thought Songs was valuable bc Tony took same song and showed how to play it at 3 different levels. So, it was about technique, it was about using skills, and for more advanced playing it seemed to be also about percussive fingerstyle, and alternate tuning playing as well…., and not some jive rote exercises. Maybe just the TAC mentors voted whether to keep Songs, or maybe Tony wasn’t into it. On his Acoustic Tuesday show I notice from time to time he does show how to play some riffs…including his beloved Led Zeppelin Kashmir in DADGAD tuning…..

    • This reply was modified 3 years, 8 months ago by  SteveinCT.
    • Michael-K73

      Member
      June 18, 2021 at 5:29 am

      TAC mentors had nothing to do with it, and for the most part, knew nothing of most of the changes.

      I rarely, if ever talk about this stuff, just wanted that to be clear 🙂

      -M

    • dr_dave

      Member
      June 18, 2021 at 10:47 am

      TAC mentors were invited to a “Town Hall” last Fall, during which Summer (along with Victoria and Mia – is Mia still part of TAC team? – can’t tell the players without a program!) told us that change was coming. A lot of mentors shared their opinions about what made TAC great and things they feared losing. Most of what most mentors said appears to have been disregarded. Mentors’ opinions were not solicited per se, but since it was a Town Hall, we offered them. Members’ opinions were not solicited in general, and they didn’t even know about the Town Hall that the mentors had. Maybe a few individual members were consulted – I have no way of knowing that because if it happened, I was not one of them. I participated in the Town Hall and I am still amazed that the changes were this extensive and that so much content was removed. I do not want to sound bitter, rather factual.

      • This reply was modified 3 years, 8 months ago by  dr_dave.
      • SteveinCT

        Member
        June 18, 2021 at 3:56 pm

        Thanks for the history, @dr_dave. Obviously, I’m just reacting to what is, since I have no idea “what was”, but the administrators make it clear that no answers will be forthcoming from either Tony or Levi about any of this, since there are 1,400 TAC members who potentially want to talk to them. OK, but I was told mentors could answer my TAC-newbie questions. And now I understand why that’s not so. I’ve been playing electric and acoustic with others on and off for many years, and consider myself a creative acoustic player and singer, and now is my time to flesh out these skills with some serious fretboard note playing, also using alternate tuning.. Would you know how Skills section has been diminished, in some respects I have found many Skills courses I’ve already taken are begging for a second set of lessons that carry the journey further.

        I’m at a crossroads given I’m still within 60 day window, and I have no idea what’s ahead in the revamped TAC. I suspect some have lifetime deals and take whatever is given. Tony reveals more of his playing style on his Acoustic Tuesday YouTube shows than on this site, in my view. Thx for taking the time for me.

      • dr_dave

        Member
        June 19, 2021 at 8:59 pm

        I think what you see right now is pretty much what it is going to be. If they were planning to introduce new content or bring back a few of the challenges that disappeared, I think they would have said something. I’m interpreting the relative silence from TAC Admin to mean they are where they want this to be. I’m a lifer, so I still do the dailies.

      • SteveinCT

        Member
        June 20, 2021 at 7:03 am

        thx @dr_dave. As I’ve mentioned, administrators are referring all questions to long time “Mentors.” What does it mean for you to be a “lifer”….are there some members who paid once, and don’t incur the annual hundreds of dollars of fees?….and they are ‘mentors’ in the sense that they’ve been committed the longest, and have some insight from Tony/ Levi into direction of the site, and are supposed to disseminate that insight on these Forums?

        Tony has put the content of many Skills on YouTube for free, so in that sense he’s monetizing certain content without the paywall. (Many if not most of comments posted on Skills lessons are from years ago). But he’s such an accomplished player and singer, as a mentor do you see what I see, that new content seems to be on Acoustic Tuesday… what with recent mariachi lesson, Clawhammer Guitar brief primer, et al. Thx for taking time to answer my queries!

      • dr_dave

        Member
        June 20, 2021 at 9:11 pm

        I can’t believe Administrators would refer you to Mentors. There were Mentors at one time – people who essentially pledged to be active in the Community (forums) and jump in to answer questions and help others. It was mainly aimed at making new people feel comfortable navigating the site.

        Mentors were not necessarily “old hands.” Some people became Mentors within about a month or so of joining TAC – at least it seemed that way.

        I was a Mentor. There actually was a page that listed the Mentors, but I always had trouble finding it. I tried to find it now in the remnants of the old Community, but I was unsuccessful.

        The Administrators axed the Mentor program when they rolled out the new site back in late March. That’s whi I find it highly unusual that Administrators might refer you to Mentors. Some of the people who used to be Mentors are still trying to be helpful. Maybe that’s who the Administrators mean.

        There has only been a little lesson content added since I joined 4 years ago – to the day, actually. Happy TACiversary to me. I almost got to midnight EDT without even noticing. That didn’t happen on my previous TACiversaries. I used to be pumped up and write about all the geeky guitar fun I had and all I learned, but I don”t think that is going to happen this time. My enthusiasm took a big hit.

        Since I joined, I think at least as much lesson content has been deleted as has been added. The TAC method is to cycle through the same daily exercises and make new discoveries in them each time they appear. I am not expecting more lessons or deeper explanations to be added.

      • dr_dave

        Member
        June 20, 2021 at 9:41 pm

        Oh yes, I forgot to explain the “lifer” thing. Yes, I am a lifetime member. I joined as a lifetime member. The first lesson cost me a bunch, but all the rest have been free!

  • Brian2501

    Member
    June 17, 2021 at 9:43 pm

    Steven…strangely after doing the challenge just about every day since November I came to a very similar conclusion. I think that if Tony could incorporate the nightly practice that would culminate in learning a song, it would make it many times more rewarding. (I actually wrote a note last night expressing that.) Yes there are other excellent sites that teach songs…but they don’t do this…where you check in every night and work on your skills. It would make a great combination. Meanwhile I am sticking with it because I do like TAC and am going to give it a year then decide whether to move on or stay.

  • Fly

    Member
    June 18, 2021 at 2:48 am

    Forget the old website Steven as someone who used it the lessons are no different now, yes there was 3 different videos but this was just different speeds you can still do this in the videos with the x buttons I also like to use a metronome . The song vault wasn’t part of the curriculum it was a paid added extra of old lessons. I paid for it and got a lot out of it but it was the daily lessons that gave me the skills and confidence to play them

    I get you want to Tailor the lessons to suit how your journey is going and you can do this whilst using TAC. I do this by completing the daily lessons to the best of my ability (I’ve been here nearly 6 months now) 6 months ago I could barely do them now I tend to complete them and even have the tools to play around with them adding new flourishes or just falling down a hole of noodling. Let yourself go submit to the idea of trying something new each day and challenging yourself and with some patience before you know it your doing things on the guitar you never even thought about trying.. Then when you’ve got what you can out of the lesson and have more time learn a song or a scale, scales with a metronome have been instrumental in my learning and gaining understanding of rhythm and connections between my fretting and strumming hand. Get a file write it all down create that dream course yourself, get obsessed celebrate the positives rather then getting hung up on the negatives or what you can’t control . By doing the lessons everyday I now have the knowledge to take things further and I am now starting to learn songs that aren’t polecastro arrangements which is why I picked up the guitar (sorry Tony)

    Just offering a different perspective good luck with your journey ✌️

    • SteveinCT

      Member
      June 18, 2021 at 7:22 am

      Thx, but pls realize that for some seasoned TAC members who’ve been playing a long time, the daily lessons are too easy, and the Skills sections usually also fall short because they are maybe 7 videos with about a half hour of content, cumulatively. You can’t teach slide guitar that quickly! I like Tony, it was his persona and the internet ad that led me to the 60 day trial, and I like his emphasis on Guitar Journeys and finding joy in playing. But for some reason, he doesn’t want TAC to be a one-stop shop to be able to take a deep dive into alternate tunings, slide guitar, fingerstyle fills around chords not in the open position…. if that’s what the acoustic guitar geek is seeking! His own inventive playing would be reason for inspiration, and even first copying a player is often a springboard for finding expressiveness in your own playing. Everybody is taking from everybody, and making it their own, that’s how music is created, we all know that!

      • This reply was modified 3 years, 8 months ago by  SteveinCT.
      • jumpinjeff

        Member
        June 18, 2021 at 7:57 am

        Hi @SteveinCT , The strongest discussions are had when we stick to our experiences, as in: I speak for myself, I speak about what I learn, I speak about what I want. If I were to speak for you even if I knew what you wanted the discussion could deteriorate and be less constructive. You reference : “Thx, but pls realize that for some seasoned TAC members who’ve been playing a long time,” How about we let those seasoned TAC members share their own thoughts and ideas. I for one disagree with your premise. I am a seasoned TAC member. I have found The daily lessons are multidimensional, like music itself there is no end to what can be learned or skill improved upon. I find the repetition of the cycles extremely useful. They have been the continuous source of my progress. I have gone beyond the learning of the lesson to figuring out what the lesson means. Recent example “Ultimate Warrior” Rhythm Chord Progression unlocks a super key musical principle. I missed it the first few times through. Tony does not speak directly to the principle….It would have been over my head and frustrating or a “ya whatever” sort of thing until I had enough knowledge to comprehend and incorporate. When I came prepared with that knowledge, seeing the principle was like finding a gold nugget in the river I was hiking along. Maybe you saw it too? There is more to the lesson(s) than meets the initial glance. That is this seasoned TACer’s perspective.

      • SteveinCT

        Member
        June 18, 2021 at 10:47 am

        Thx for your comments, @jumpinjeff. Yes, nice principle on that Ultimate Warrior esp. if singing a song and wanting to play chords and mix in some pinch fills and perhaps running bass for dynamics in quarter note and eighth note bars. But today’s Daily, and most Fridays, are to me, oriented to beginners. And all is good with that.

        i’m going to post another question next week about this, but if you have any insight into past “asks” by TAC members over the years… perhaps that’ll be helpful to my questions why Tony didn’t develop an advanced “playing in alternate tuning” Skills course to complement what’s there now, or an advanced Slide course to complement Tony Furtado’s intro course, and thereby capturing in one site the many different directions acoustic playing can take us…I mean, since the early 70s alternate tuning has been a key parcel in playing, and the most recent Acoustic Tuesday Tony showed “Clawhammer Guitar” technique, and you have to use Open G for that….and slide guitar is also all open tunings.,,,,.thx!

      • Fly

        Member
        June 18, 2021 at 8:49 am

        👍

  • Cadgirl

    Member
    June 18, 2021 at 5:27 am

    I understand @SteveinCT what you are saying but I don’t think the site is actually going for “learning a song” type site. It’s more of getting you motivated to try to do something on your own. Learn different methods. I never knew “Open D” tuning before. Now I can google a song using Open D and practice myself. Have you taken the “fretboard wizard” yet? If not, that is a VERY good course to take. It will give you the backbone of what makes a chord, makes a song, figure out a song, etc. I struggled through it, but in the end. I now understand music theory a little. I was clueless before. I can sit down and figure out a jingle off tv now. Figuring out Soft Kitty and applying my own riffs to it was a big step for me. There are some things I wish they wouldn’t have taken away but that’s the way goes. Your with us for the year, use the forums and see if anyone is starting up their own virtual mic you can join in on. Have some fun, even if it’s only for a year. 😀

    • SteveinCT

      Member
      June 18, 2021 at 11:04 am

      Thx for your comments @Cadgirl! I’m within 60 day initial window, and wonder if any member to your knowledge has asked how come you have to go to YouTube to learn how to play in Open D—i.e., shouldn’t that all be Tony teaching on TAC Skills?

      • Cadgirl

        Member
        June 18, 2021 at 2:11 pm

        No @SteveinCT you should be able to find the all the alternative tunings on this site. There is a search icon on the upper right side of the courses page. Type in what you are looking for and the course should come up. Also look at the course called “Alternate Tuning” I haven’t done the course, but I did skim over one of the videos. It looks like it should help you out.

      • SteveinCT

        Member
        June 18, 2021 at 3:41 pm

        Yes @Cadgirl I’ve completed several Skills courses, on the surface they look comprehensive and complementary to the dailies….. not so, in my view, and the Alternate Tuning course is just that—tuning. So, you have your guitar tuned in Open D, or Open G, etc., now it’s up to you to play chords and fills in that tuning. I had thought you’d been there, and then chose to go to YouTube for some ideas. I just asked if you had thought the Skills class should have incorporated that, why chase down instruction on others YouTube sites….

      • Cadgirl

        Member
        June 19, 2021 at 4:01 am

        Ok, I gotcha. I have to say TAC got me into a guitar routine. I play the guitar everyday now. I have met a lot of people on the forums that I really like and enjoy reading their posts. But, yes, I use different sites to learn actual songs. Removing the SONG vault I thought was dumb, but who I’m I? TAC did give me the knowledge to write my own songs/riffs if I choose. I found the most beneficial was the Fretboard wizard, but I never would have made it through the course without community support. Look at the site as a stepping board, it’s gives you the knowledge and take it from there. Wish you luck with your journey which ever way you go.

  • JohnV

    Member
    June 18, 2021 at 7:48 am

    Most of us past and current members were only aware of those members who posted regularly on the forums. We forget about the thousands of members who for the first time in their life are picking up a guitar and wanting to learn how to play. This is where I think the redesign of the website was being driven from. They may have felt being left behind. And if they are the majority of subscribers, I think it is in Tony’s business interest to make sure he does not leave them behind.

    But, I too have a lot of trouble connecting the daily challenges to real world use. I love the Song Vault but I do have a complaint about it. As good as the teaching and simplicity of some the songs are, I can hardly find another version on youtube that is the arraignment Tony presents. But then again, many of those on youtube are lightyears beyond my ability. The good thing is with Tony’s arraignments I can at least learn a complete song even if it is different than what everyone else may be playing.

    So, my conclusion, TAC is not for everyone and does not serve everyone’s needs. I suspect it does serve the silent majority very well.

    John

    • SteveinCT

      Member
      June 18, 2021 at 11:14 am

      @JohnV Thx..I suspect you’re right. In the lengthy promo ad that tipped me off about TAC, Tony emphasized daily habits and sense of guitar community full of guitar geeks, but as I recall, no mention of what’s the curriculum. And no intake upon joining. So, I’m now in the “money back” period and asking questions about what lies ahead here in TAC, whether there’s a chance the Skills section can be amplified so maybe I can learn to be a decent slide player or play percussive fingerstyle in alternate tunings, etc….or if the that’s just not going to happen

  • rickyk76

    Member
    June 18, 2021 at 6:21 pm

    @SteveinCT to answer your question in short: no, this isn’t the site that will do these things for your guitar journey.

    The long answer is that TAC builds a practice routine. Put your 10 minutes a day in. Have fun with it. But that’s the basic premise and the main extent of its reach. Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday lessons somewhat work together to help you build your scale and lick library and work on improv, but as you said, with no real context, especially for a beginner. You can test your improvement in 10 months when the same lessons come around again, and test them even further when they come around yet again. Friday will give you a glimpse into theory with a chord progression.

    The skills lessons give you a basic introduction into some skills, but there is nothing else offered to extend those skills beyond those classes. There are myths and whispered rumors of new content to be made, but no timeline given. Should said mysterious content ever arrive, I have no doubt it will follow the current architecture and not connect the dots in the way you are hoping.

    The song vault is no more as you know. I know of no one that asked for it to be discontinued. I don’t think members asked for its discontinuation, but what do I know? The only requests I ever saw made were for new songs to be added. It was definitely beneficial for others in putting the skills learned together.

    The community that now exists is not the community that was advertised. That community was dismantled. What has been repackaged and repurposed to look like a community is now just a place to consolidate free marketing material. And I say this being one that is prominently featured in one or two of the ads. I wish that weren’t the case.

    Further, the community emails will soon no longer be offered. Instead you can provide extra views to a monetized YouTube channel by watching Acoustic Tuesday to possibly get the content that would have been provided in the community emails.

    Fretboard Wizard is good at providing basic theory. It’s with that purchase that you’ll find the Alternate Tunings course. But that’s a separate cost.

    To sum TAC up: here’s a few licks, scales, warmups, and skills…now you go figure out how to put it all together.

    • jumpinjeff

      Member
      June 18, 2021 at 9:07 pm

      @rickyk76 said: “Instead you can provide extra views to a monetized YouTube channel”…

      You state that as a fact, its funny though I have never seen an external advert on Acoustic Tuesday. Wondering if you know this to be true or is this your belief.

      Based on my observation I would say these are not monetized. Curious though.

      • rickyk76

        Member
        June 18, 2021 at 10:28 pm
      • Cadgirl

        Member
        June 19, 2021 at 4:02 am

        you know @rickyk76 ……. i’m so sick of advertising! It’s just going to turn into a money game.

      • rickyk76

        Member
        June 19, 2021 at 6:25 am

        @jumpinjeff as you can see, it’s monetized by ads. Whenever you see the merch banner under the videos, that’s also a form of YouTube monetization. And there’s a way to monetize from Premium YouTube subscribers. It’s a simple option to turn on and it will pay you if any YT subscribers watch your videos. I’m surprised you’ve never seen an ad. There’s at least one at the beginning of every AT.

        @cadgirl It’s always about money.

      • jumpinjeff

        Member
        June 19, 2021 at 7:51 am

        @rickyk76 , I went to the episode in your example and I did get the adverts. The latest episode #191 did not have adverts. When you watch 191 do you get adverts?

      • jumpinjeff

        Member
        June 19, 2021 at 1:08 pm

        @rickyk76 , I think you are right regarding: “it’s all about the money.” The question is who is getting the money? I could not figure out why some of the AT vids had ads and some did not and then I found this:

        https://www.youtube.com/howyoutubeworks/policies/copyright/#making-claims

        If TAC uses a clip or non original content, it can be claimed and the claimant is then able to run ads on the whole video. TACs video channel is not monetized by TAC.🕵

        • This reply was modified 3 years, 8 months ago by  jumpinjeff.
      • rickyk76

        Member
        June 19, 2021 at 2:13 pm

        @jumpinjeff with your son Jonah working at TAC, you’ll have more inside knowledge about whether the YouTube channel is monetized or not. However, I’ve also seen the Acoustic Life/Acoustic Tuesday merch shelf on the videos which is another way of monetizing YouTube. You can see all the different ways how YouTube is monetized here: https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/72857?hl=en. If you do further searches, you’ll see that YouTube ads are also randomized, so not even every video of monetized content contains ads. If you definitively know whether it is or not, let us know. Not that it’s the main point.

        However, the transfer of the TAC weekly emails, a private communication that was previously part of the paid service has now been transferred to a public platform in Acoustic Tuesday, yet another dilution of what used to be part of TAC.

      • jumpinjeff

        Member
        June 19, 2021 at 7:17 pm

        He is pretty tight lipped about what goes on there much to my chagrin as I would like to know everything. He did suggest I read the youtube policy but my conclusions are my own. I will let this dog sleep and defer to your expertise as you your knowledge exceeds mine. I am a blind mouse looking for crumbs. Thanks @rickyk76 for shedding light on the topic.

    • SteveinCT

      Member
      June 19, 2021 at 8:43 am

      Thx @rickyk76 and @jumpinjeff and @Cadgirl and @was-Dan for this thread on the ads on Acoustic Tuesday and new directions of TAC. The Acoustic Tuesday shows I’ve seen recently have more playing detail than the Skills section, and maybe there’s a business model based on YouTube as a platform—with eyeballs monetizing ads rather than just monetizing thru subscription-based Acoustic Challenge. But that’s not my primary concern.

      @rickyk76,I’ve referred to myself as a newbie, but meant a newbie to this TAC site, I’ve been playing for decades and just wanted to play the ever-growing number of songs I sing and play with a jam buddy with more intricacy when we play acoustic–(my electric guitar is another instrument entirely)–and you know, we all have our guitar heroes and reasons we picked up the guitar in the first place, so we have an idea of what guitar sounds we’d like to emulate.

      I don’t need to pay someone a lot of money to push me to play, which is Tony’s key observation when he promotes TAC on a long ad I came upon first in late April, after a podcast I was listening to. The other TAC goal is to create community, but it’s weird to me that the administrators don’t foster community by chiming in to questions raised in the forums. I see you have a forum for acoustic players.

      You commented on how Skills are and will also be just intro courses, without any “part 2” to build further skills in those areas. Which is what I wanted to know more about. For Slide in the Skills, all I want to do is at least sound like I know what I’m doing when I’m playing slide….I would’ve liked to have some background with how slide maestro Derek Trucks goes about it(Tony shows Derek playing briefly on an Acoustic Tuesday), and some notion of where are the chord tones and minor pentatonic notes for the free fingers when you’re playing slide/open tuning.

      Since I sing and play, I’m mainly creative chords and fills player, with an occasional solo during instrumental break (my jam buddy is better at that than me),,,,,but wanted to play some acoustic stuff more maturely, esp. some percussive alternate tuning melodic fingerstyling;, there are a few TAC Skills courses about fingerstyle, it’s hard stuff esp. when you’re singing too, but for those players who tend to play every song with strum and fill in standard tuning and want to expand, it would be great if TAC could meld the fingerstyle Skills with alternate tunings Skills…but there’s no one at administrative level to address this with..

      Anyway, @rickyk76thx for pointing out your views on TAC’s curriculum emphasis, and your key observation that any promises made without timelines are meaningless.

  • was-Dan

    Member
    June 19, 2021 at 7:36 am

    Hi Steve,

    I joined in 2014. Tony used to compare guitars and he used the same songs or parts of songs to show how the guitars differed from each. People, myself included started asking him what is this song or that song and how do I learn to play it. So Tony and Levi started TAC. It has always had the daily lessons and the song vault initially was just part of the deal. At first, Tony would respond to questions. I asked him when he was going to put a new song in the song vault. His response was not that many people wanted it. Then the existing song vault became an add on for new members. Old member were just given access. I always thought the song vault completed the daily lessons. There were and are lessons to ready you to play Detroit Moan. One of my favorites that Tony arranged. But new songs stopped being made somewhere around 2016. Tony said that people wanted things like the Tuesday You Tube, which I never watched live so I could fast forward.

    I believe this is the third platform change. This one removed the ability to go to the lesson vault and find an old lesson that was appropriate for what you may be working on currently. That was a big loss for me.

    Please, I am not saying this is a worthless site, it is not. It got me to play things I never thought I could play. I do believe there comes a point where there needs to be a “next level”, and TAC has decided that should be left to someone else while they focus on the Tuesday show or whatever is next for them. I have decided to find the next level and will be leaving.

    Dan

    • SteveinCT

      Member
      June 19, 2021 at 8:52 am

      Thx @was-Dan, we’re same age, I started playing during British Invasion. I have re-invigorated electric guitar playing with two London-based pay-what-you-want online teachers/sites and joined TAC to bring my acoustic playing into a more mature level with certain Skills, including slide and alternate tuning melodic fingerstyle. I always wonder if joiners in the “early years” signed up for lifetime or are paying the current rate for joining up. I don’t know how it’s done, but if you could DM and let me know if there’s something you’ve found to help continue your journey…

  • JohnW

    Member
    June 20, 2021 at 7:15 am

    I am on the opposite end of the spectrum from many of the members who have responded here. I am a 60 year old that always wanted to play guitar. I did not play as a teenager, and never had the time until life’s responsibilities began to decline. I responded to the marketing on line after memorizing a few basic songs and searching other websites. I realized I did not have the knowledge or basic skills to be successful. TAC has given me both.

    Ultimately though I am not going to be writing music and my goal is to be able to play with others and learn songs. Skills ,drills and education are the fundamentals to this process. But, as a new guitar player I am on my own to learn songs and this is a major weakness. TAC has fostered a guitar routine and commitment to practice and learning. It is a rare day when I only spend 10 minutes on a challenge.

    I came to TAC because I was lost on the internet and felt like I was wasting time searching out content. Time that could be better spent practicing. Going back out there to find songs, leads me to other websites that meet my needs.

    I understand that it is very hard to be all things to all people, but I suspect the silent majority would like the ability to transition from skills and drills to songs

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